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station this is houston are you ready

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houston station we are ready for the

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all right national institutes of health

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this is mission control houston please

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call the station for a voice check

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wow well this is dr francis collins uh

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director of the national institutes of

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health and i'm here on earth to have a

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conversation

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with dr kate rubins astronaut and

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researcher who's actually in space and

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kate it is great to meet you via

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it is pretty fantastic and we're

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actually bouncing off a satellite in low

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earth orbit from the space station

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sending that down to the planet and

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beaming that out to you guys so

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it is indeed incredible and it seems to

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be working which is just amazing well

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you know it's been 13 years since i had

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the privilege of leading the human

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genome project that read out that very

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first

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reference sequence of the human genome

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and now here we are rocketing forward if

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you'll pardon the use of the word uh

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with lots of other advances that take

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advantage of our ability to read out dna

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and rna

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and you're up there in space doing dna

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sequencing for the first time

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here on earth we're in the process of

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launching a project that will invite a

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million people to take part in an

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unprecedented study to understand how

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dna as well as environmental experiences

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and health practices lifestyle diet

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exercise all of that plays out in human

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health and disease something that's

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called the precision medicine initiative

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and i hope some of the people watching

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today will read more about that and

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think about signing up when we launch

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this in three or four months

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but kate if i may call you kaden please

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call me frances

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really delighted to have a chance to

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hear about your experiences up there

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doing dna sequencing uh in zero gravity

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in space

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tell us a little bit about that

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yeah this was truly an experiment in all

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senses of the word we did not know if it

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was going to work uh the first time we

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were doing sequencing in space and

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like every lab experiment

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you put your pipettor down and you give

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it a try and it actually was a fantastic

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technology demonstration

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we have

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bubbles and fluidic changes in

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microgravity and we were able to show

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that we can successfully do sequencing

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in space and we've sequenced over a

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billion base pairs at this point so we

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have this capability now in low earth

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a billion base pairs already that is

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pretty phenomenal so that's like one

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third of a human genome

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and you're doing this on a dna

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sequencing instrument that is extremely

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compact many of us who do dna sequencing

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here on earth we use machines that are

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pretty good size not quite the same as

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they used to be but they still occupy a

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big chunk of lab bench space

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yours sounds like it's about the size of

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it is it's incredibly compact and that's

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one of the things that's a unique

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aspect of space flight is that we need

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to get machines to be compact portable

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robust

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independent of of much power generation

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we generate all of our power up here

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from solar rays these are all the kinds

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of challenges that we faced when i was

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doing uh ebola and monkey pox

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experiments in congo so the kinds of

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things that we find in the most remote

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corners of the planet are some of the

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similar technologies and engineering

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advances that we're solving

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so tell me a little bit about what you

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might anticipate dna sequencing would be

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used for uh in space travel what kinds

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of

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organisms would you be looking to try to

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so i'm a little bit biased because i'm a

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virologist

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and have studied genomics of microbiome

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and immune system and viruses for a long

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time but i do think that the microbiome

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of the space station is incredibly

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fascinating we live in a closed-loop

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environment here

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so we recycle all of our air and all of

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our water

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this being nasa you can bet that every

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piece of equipment that comes off of the

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planet is incredibly well controlled and

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documented the uh the fairly cooperative

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human subjects on the space station are

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well controlled and documented

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so we actually have an excellent

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opportunity to study the microbiome of a

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closed-loop system that's off the planet

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i think we can also use this technology

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when we're starting to look for signs of

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life in the solar system beyond the

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planet and we can also start to

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understand human health and disease most

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of our disease research is taking a

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variable and looking at human physiology

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under different conditions we have the

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opportunity to look at human physiology

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as it's floating here so this is

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obviously quite a unique laboratory if

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i'm talking to you from the ceiling or

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that was a nice demonstration

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so we've collected a few questions from

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social media and we'll also be taking a

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few live questions

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and i'll be looking at them in a screen

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in front of me and i see one here from

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dieter perkover

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who's asking maybe relevant to what you

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were just saying is it possible to get

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the flu on the international space

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so that's actually one of the great

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things about being up here is that

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all of the astronauts who launched to

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the space station we have a couple of

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crew members who are launching in just a

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few days from kazakhstan are quarantined

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and screened so

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we we don't have the possibility to

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transmit a cold up here

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you certainly could have

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other microbiological foodborne illness

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that kind of thing but we uh we find

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that when we isolate humans from other

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human beings that's actually very

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incredibly effective antiviral

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so i want to ask you a few other things

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about the relationship between space

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travel and human health and i'm happy to

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say that nih and nasa have long-standing

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collaborations in this particular area

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and we're excited about some of the

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things that are now possible

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so for instance astronauts like you are

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up there exposed in many ways to various

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types of radiation that we don't get on

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planet earth because of the protective

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shield of the atmosphere just yesterday

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vice president joe biden in announcing

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the latest plan for the cancer moon shot

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highlighted a partnership between nasa

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and nih and other agencies specifically

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looking at whether we could learn more

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about the effects of various types of

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radiation on human cells by doing those

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experiments in places like the space

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station

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is that something that you could say

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something about is are any of those

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yeah absolutely uh that's one of the the

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microgravity environment in in cells

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floating is obviously a incredibly

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interesting thing to study but the

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radiation environment i think is the

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second major factor on the space station

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we just can't simulate the low earth

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orbit radiation environment on the earth

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with

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the beams and the accelerators that we

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have on earth don't give us the same

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mix of particles that are currently

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bombarding human physiology in low earth

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orbit so we can study that up here we

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have

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had long-standing partnerships with nih

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to understand

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what's going on with cell physiology on

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orbit and we can study this at a

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cellular level

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we can grow cultured cells up here we

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just group cardiomyocytes from

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programmed adult stem cells for 42 days

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in orbit and we can study rodent models

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we can study humans as models so we

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really have all of the tools at this

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point to understand

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how radiation

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dna

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damage and all the kinds of cellular

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stress that contribute to aging and

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cancer

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we have some a lot of tools to start to

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that's very impressive i've been reading

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about the twin study that's going on

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right now this unique opportunity to

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look at identical twins

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uh scott and mark kelly where scott was

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in orbit for 340 days while his

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identical twin mark who's previously

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been an astronaut was here on earth

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and i guess because scott thought it was

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a good idea a whole bunch of plans were

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made to see what would be the difference

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in their biology based upon that long

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time that scott spent in space with sort

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of the perfect control here because he

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and his brother have exactly the same

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genomes i know that work is ongoing

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right now and i guess maybe we'll hear

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something in the coming months but i

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thought that was a particularly

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interesting and creative way

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to look at the effects of what space

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absolutely and that allows you to look

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at both the genomic effects as well as

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there's transcriptional studies there's

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epigenomic studies going on as part of

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that and there's complete environmental

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analysis as well so understanding of the

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influence of genes and and the

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environment

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we've got this very very unique

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environment in space

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but one of the benefits is that it's

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also incredibly well controlled and so

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we can understand uh how human health

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and and

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genomic responses are influenced in this

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uh this very bizarre uh place that we

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call orbiting our planet in low earth

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so kate you mentioned one of the

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applications of the dna sequencer might

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be at some point to look and see if

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other life forms exist out there and

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could be characterized

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but of course that raises the question

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would those other life forms have dna or

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would they have some other means of

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propagating information obviously nobody

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knows the answer to that question but

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absolutely and one of the one of the

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interesting things about the technology

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that we're using the nanopart technology

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is that

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it can be uh

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it can have some capabilities

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for

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nucleic acids that are slightly modified

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so you're really looking

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at something that's got capability uh

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potentially

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to

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analyze things that are nucleic acid-ish

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uh that might not be exactly resembling

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a human dna on the planet and obviously

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we're going to use an entire suite of

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tools when we are

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building our mars missions

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but to be able to test out microfluidics

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how these kinds of molecular biology

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tools work and function and to do a lot

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of the troubleshooting on the space

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station in low earth orbit as we're

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building our plans to go deeper into the

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so i see a question uh from kokak

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retrato about what are the expected

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effects of gravity on sequencing and i

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think you've mentioned something about

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the issue about the bubbles are there

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any other things that you would expect

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would be different about sequencing in

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yeah luckily surface tension really

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works uh in our favor here and in uh

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the bubbles in space issue i don't i i

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think the best way is to show it uh and

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i've got i've got a packet here and you

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can see

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that that bubbles form in in our fluids

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here and they form in a very odd way uh

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and and just even understanding the

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fluidics and and the bubbles

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at a molecular biology scale is

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incredibly important in terms of other

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in terms of other effects of gravity

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i think mostly that's going to be on

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cellular function how cells organize

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themselves in tissues

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how cells might behave in cell culture

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when they're no longer forced to the

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bottom of the plate the actual molecular

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composition analysis should be pretty

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so phoebe kinselman is asking along the

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lines of what you just mentioned what's

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the main difference that you saw between

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the way heart cells interact in space

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rather than on earth did that

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gravitational absence make a difference

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yeah and that's uh that's what the

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researchers are looking at right now so

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i think they are they're writing a paper

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about this and are going to publish it

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soon

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at least for me analyzing the cell

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culture up here

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is actually

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it's not stuck to a tissue culture plate

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so the cells were allowed to build on

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top of each other and start to form

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three-dimensional structures and this

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changes obviously the changes the way

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the cells are going to interact when

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they don't have that constant force of

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gravity so one of the things that we

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could see was how the cells organize

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themselves without gravity how they're

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communicating and some of the cellular

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so that's very cool

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nih has a program on building tissue

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chips where on a biochip you would have

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various cells that represent heart and

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lung and kidney and brain all derived by

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the magic of stem cell biology which has

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come so far so fast

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and i know we have a plan to have those

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tissue chips up there in space and use

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them as ways of assessing what are some

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of these biological effects as for

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instance that radiation might create in

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a way that doesn't actually do any harm

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to humans but you can do a lot of

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measurement on those cells sitting there

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on that chip

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let me ask you in terms of the dna

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sequencer

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you know because you're a very highly

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trained molecular biologist that the

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sequencer needs fairly pure dna in order

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to do its thing there's this question in

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my mind then how would you in space go

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about preparing the sample to get it

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ready for the sequence or how would you

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identify the dna in your environment for

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and that was uh basically exactly my

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question before i launched so we're

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allowed to fly a few things

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and uh one of the things i decided to

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fly was

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in my personal allocation was a whole

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series of pipetters so in my free time

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i've been doing some experiments about

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how you would do library prep

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and actually have found

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that

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pipetting and the standard methods of

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moving things around in eppendorf tubes

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and

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microliters or 50 microliters works very

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well up here which was extremely

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surprising to me that was not my

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hypothesis so i think the library prep

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is going to be very similar to what we

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see on earth it's just the input

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is going to be incredibly different so

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we can sample

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sent up any number of biological inputs

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and we're going to be able to do

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we're working on that right now to be

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able to do some of the library prep to

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that's pretty amazing i guess i would

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have thought that without gravity you'd

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have bits of material floating all

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around that you'd try to pipet and it

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would go down in the tube and then it

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wasn't there anymore but surface tension

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comes to the rescue is that what what

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it absolutely does and so it's very

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strange to uh to hold a reaction and

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pipette it just as you would on earth

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and then be able to flip the tube upside

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down

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and the all of the liquid stays in there

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so it is both identical to bench

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research on the planet and completely

401
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so kate you've had an amazing career

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already i know you were a fellow at the

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white house institute one of the most

404
00:17:05,829 --> 00:17:02,839
cutting edge places that does molecular

405
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:05,839
biology there's a question here from the

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the live feed

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what would you tell young students about

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your experience with science because i

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hope a lot of them are watching i think

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i would tell them uh to find something

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that they care a great deal about

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something that they're incredibly

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passionate about and uh i have not

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particularly tried to go in any

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direction in my career

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i actually applied to be an astronaut

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while procrastinating a little bit on

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writing a r01 grant application so i

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think i would say probably thank you

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directly because

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i i have found myself in some

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extraordinary and unexpected places

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because i have done whatever seems to be

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the most fascinating interesting and

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i love that answer and that's certainly

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the answer i would give as well to

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people asking how do i plan my life

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career

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it means a lot of it is keeping yourself

430
00:18:14,950 --> 00:18:13,200
open to unexpected opportunities it

431
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:14,960
sounds like being an austrian astronaut

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was one of those

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00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:18,320
for you and not expect that you can

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actually plan things out over many

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decades

436
00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:22,960
things are changing too fast there are

437
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:24,640
too many exciting things happening in

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science but if you have a passion to

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00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:28,799
make a discovery to make a difference in

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the world to add to the knowledge of the

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universe science is a great place to be

442
00:18:38,150 --> 00:18:35,120
right now never been a better time than

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right now to get engaged

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so let me ask because i think we're

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probably getting near the end of the

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time are there other things kate that

447
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:46,320
you wanted to be sure to share with the

448
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:47,760
people watching this

449
00:18:58,789 --> 00:18:55,990
well i wanted to let folks know how

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00:19:01,270 --> 00:18:58,799
amazing it is that we're sending human

451
00:19:03,190 --> 00:19:01,280
beings into low earth orbit and i'm

452
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:03,200
incredibly excited you mentioned some of

453
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:06,000
the nih nasa partnerships the things

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00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:08,720
that we are able to do right now

455
00:19:14,789 --> 00:19:12,960
are both fantastic for where we are

456
00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:14,799
with launching human beings off the

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planet we are just starting to send

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00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:19,280
people into the solar system i think as

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00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:22,080
we look back on this in 50 years and 100

460
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:24,240
years you're right this is a very very

461
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:27,520
exciting time to be alive and to be

462
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:30,000
involved in science and engineering and

463
00:19:34,630 --> 00:19:32,880
technology and i also want to say that i

464
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think this is an incredibly exciting

465
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:38,000
time for molecular biology and research

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00:19:42,950 --> 00:19:40,880
i think the places that we're going with

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00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:42,960
the world of sequencing the world of

468
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:45,440
starting to understand our microbiome

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00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:47,840
and human health and disease are very

470
00:19:51,510 --> 00:19:50,160
very exciting and so i'm really looking

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forward to

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future opportunities to work uh with nih

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00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:56,640
with academic researchers and with nasa

474
00:20:01,590 --> 00:19:59,840
to explore all of these

475
00:20:04,390 --> 00:20:01,600
well thank you kate it's been great to

476
00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:04,400
talk with you you deserve our applause

477
00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:06,080
and our prayers you're an inspiration to

478
00:20:10,710 --> 00:20:08,320
everybody we'll be archiving this video

479
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:10,720
for anybody who wants to view it later

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00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:12,559
and we look forward to kate's safe

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00:20:27,430 --> 00:20:22,390
station this is houston acr that

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and thank you dr collins in the national

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00:20:33,270 --> 00:20:31,120
institutes of health